Episode 7
· 01:02:04
Good afternoon, everyone. This is the Brick Marketing Live Podcast. Today is Tuesday, May 26. We have lots of industry topics to discuss, things about SEO, AI SEO, social media marketing, content marketing, digital marketing, all things businesses need and marketers need to understand of what's happening in the marketing world. I'm Nick Stamoulis.
Nick Stamoulis:I'd like to welcome Catherine and John to the Brick Marketing Live Podcast. We're streaming live on the Brick Marketing website and also on the Brick Marketing LinkedIn company page, Facebook page, and YouTube channel. And also, this podcast will be available on all major podcast platforms later this evening, so feel free to download it. So let's dive right in. First article today is from Search Engine Journal and the title is Google's LLMS text guidance depends on which product you ask.
Nick Stamoulis:So I thought this was very interesting. So there there's there's a best practice in AI SEO or generative engine optimization about creating a an LLMS text file and installing it on the back end of a website much like a an XML sitemap might help, oh, know, on the SEO side of things. So essentially, Google is essentially saying that it's not necessary for Google Gemini. And so I find it interesting and and it's interesting because I heard I've I've actually read on LinkedIn many people kinda debating this. My personal opinion and what we advise our clients is right now, you know, yes, Google Gemini is important.
Nick Stamoulis:Google's saying, okay, it's not gonna really matter for Google Gemini. But there's other LLMS, other LLMs, AI platforms out there. ChatGPT, right, Perplexity, Quad, Microsoft Copilot. So there's other players out there. So best practice, just create it.
Nick Stamoulis:It doesn't take a long time to do. Keep it updated regularly. It's not a heavy lift item, so I don't know why there's it's even a thing. So, you know, I mean, I guess Google maybe is like, oh, don't you know, you can't use an LMS LLMS text file as a shortcut. So I don't know.
Nick Stamoulis:Catherine, John, what do guys think?
Katherine Tsoukalas:We it seems like one of those transitionary things to me that Yeah. Oh, what what do we do to replace sitemap? Or what do we do? What's the AI equivalent of the sitemap? And the answer for a long time was the LLMS.
Katherine Tsoukalas:Don't know if that means it's going to be around forever. It's around now. It's helpful for Yeah. The other platforms. May as well just do it.
Nick Stamoulis:Right. Yeah. John, what do
Katherine Tsoukalas:you Even updated. It's it's an easy thing to do.
Nick Stamoulis:Yeah. It is. It is. What are what are your thoughts on it?
John:Yeah. And it's like Google Gemini is only one of the AI platforms. Right? Who knows if cat g b t is pulling from it. And and Google also loves to say that things don't matter when they really do as well.
John:Right? So it's like They do.
Katherine Tsoukalas:Even if
Nick Stamoulis:they're saying
John:it's not working, I I would just view,
Nick Stamoulis:you know,
John:wary and have it
Nick Stamoulis:That's a really good point. It's a good point. It's a good point. Oh, yeah. I agree.
Nick Stamoulis:I agree. Next, article from marketing week. X launches tool matching brands with creators. I thought this was really cool because, you know, it's interesting. In many circles, I should say circles, circles, industry folks, and clients, people just don't wanna use X as a social media platform to market their brands.
Nick Stamoulis:It's it's really astounding to me. You know, it's kinda like, okay, you know, see keeping politics aside, right, and whether you like or dislike Elon Musk, it's not a bad platform. And so, I mean, I think I thought this was great to actually find some positive news about X where they're actually creating tools to help brands find creators, know. I just thought it was a really I thought it was a really nice to see something new launch that's AI related at x. So yeah.
Nick Stamoulis:So that's what we're talking about. So Catherine, John, what do you what do you think?
Katherine Tsoukalas:I have some friends influencers who have noticed since AI came on the scene that their business has been just not as much. People haven't been sure where the influencer Mhmm. Thing was gonna be going. I think this is a step, a positive step in the in the right direction because AI can help enhance an influencer's business and it doesn't have to compete with it. And this is one data point to say, hey, this is where things are headed.
Katherine Tsoukalas:Stick it out and AI can create opportunities for you.
Nick Stamoulis:Yeah. Yeah. John, what your thoughts?
John:Yeah. This reminds me a lot of a platform that I was invited to be on, where it does this essentially for for, like, YouTube channels where it'll use AI to match a brand whether it was like HelloFresh or or your your Nord VPNs, the the popular ones. Match them up with creators on the website that are certain sizes or have certain topics that would match them up with others. And this is looks like it's exactly that, but for x. And it's a very a very good and helpful product for both brands and creators.
Nick Stamoulis:Yeah. Yeah. You know, my my thought is wouldn't it be nice if all the social platforms had this kind of tool available? You know, because I know, you know, that's something that often many times we'll have clients that will say, hey, can you launch an influencer marketing program? And you know, it's always a heavy lift.
Nick Stamoulis:Know, even using AI, even using, like you said, John, some of the other, you know, platforms. And I'm aware of some of them and some of them are great, but the problem is not all creators are on those platforms. In fact, most aren't. Yeah. Most don't know what they are.
Nick Stamoulis:And a lot of those platforms take a percent of, you know, of of revenue from you. So that oftentimes will have a reluctance for a lot of creators, influencers to actually be on there. So I think it's great that the, you know, social platforms and in this case, x is actually offering that. So it would be nice if they all did. Right?
Nick Stamoulis:Like TikTok should have their own. I mean, right? Like TikTok is huge for, you know, for influencers and they really should.
John:It definitely seems like a no brainer. Even even those platforms could take a certain percentage of it and it's basically free revenue for them.
Nick Stamoulis:Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. For sure.
Nick Stamoulis:Moving on. Next is an article from the Brick Marketing blog, from our blog, building content clusters for AEO, answer engine optimization, or AI search. So this is an article that basically is, you know, where we talk about the importance of creating content clusters that will will help, you know, your brand and your content's topical visibility in AI search. And I think that, you know, remember it, for those of you listening that you don't know really what the heck we're talking about, is AI search, you have basically AI SEO is the umbrella, which is search engine optimization essentially. Then you have generative engine optimization, which is for entities or brands and clarity of entities and brands.
Nick Stamoulis:And then you have answer engine optimization, which essentially is content marketing, you know, kinda, you know, early and mid level type con sales level content where you're answering questions that's tied to tying to your brand. What we're seeing is content clusters creating microbursts of content so the AI platforms can actually digest the information is is really helpful. Now, advice on this and we tell our clients and we advise our clients to not choose one or one approach over another. Right? You wanna have a well balanced content marketing strategy, understand what your strategy is first, and then roll it out and say, okay, here's what's gonna resonate first and foremost with my audience, tie into your business goals, and then start to say, okay, now is there useful content that we can create that will help us generate leads, generate any outcomes we're looking for that will also help an AI search.
Nick Stamoulis:And that's kind of what we're alluding to in this article. So, Catherine, John, if you wanna chime in on this So
Katherine Tsoukalas:AI one thing that's really important for AI is that it loves to understand how your topic and all of your offshoot topics interrelate to each other. And this helps it understand who you are and what you're about and helps it return your your brand properly in its, answer engines. So one way that you can do this and to encourage AI's understanding of who you are and what you do is to do these content clusters. It's in like Nick said, it's one strategy of many, but that's the theory behind it.
Nick Stamoulis:Right.
Katherine Tsoukalas:That that AI needs to understand how things relate to one another. And this is one of the strategies that we have taken on, that we have found to be really helpful for that.
Nick Stamoulis:Mhmm. Absolutely. John, your thoughts?
John:Yeah. AI is still somewhat of an algorithm, but it's like a highly contextual algorithm. So things like content clusters are very helpful because it's able to easily read what you're about or whatever your your article is about, say, and and sort of, you know, spit that out to whoever is asking questions on their on whatever platform it may be.
Nick Stamoulis:Yeah. Absolutely. Alright. And just a quick reminder to everyone. So we're streaming this live on the Brick Marketing website at brickmarketing.com/live on our LinkedIn, Facebook, and YouTube channels.
Nick Stamoulis:And also, this will be made available to everyone by searching Brick Marketing Live or Brick Marketing on every major podcast platform later this evening. So on that note, continuing on, here's an a really great article from search engine land that talks about Reddit. Reddit's AI search influence goes beyond training data. So essentially, this article talks about how what the difference is between AI training versus AI access versus AI citation. And talking about, you know, and in the article, I'm not gonna bore you with a lot of the details, but the article, you know, I definitely recommend that you read it on search engine land.
Nick Stamoulis:But the article essentially talks about how the LLMs, the AI platforms really do Reddit because of the kind of the contextual relevancy, and then as they put it, lived experience. So and the fact that there's disagreements on Reddit. So what that shows is if there's a topic that essentially it's getting flushed out one way or another. So it's not like if you have a citation or you know, if an LLM, whether it's ChatGPT or Gemini, use a a non Reddit source as a citation for information. It's generally speaking, especially if it's if it's a brand's website or company website, it's one approach or it's one way of looking at it.
Nick Stamoulis:And I think that's what they like is for now anyway, that Reddit has that level of, you know, kind of disagreement, but also settling on the consensus for, you know, from a contextual perspective. So I think this is a great article. You know, we love Reddit, but, you know, but you also have to think, okay, are your customers gonna be at Reddit too? Right? If you're launching a Reddit campaign only for the intention to show up in an LLM and AI search citations, I'd say you may want to reevaluate it.
Nick Stamoulis:Right? Like, you know, but if your audience is there, like our audience at Brick Marketing is there. So we're active at Reddit. So it makes sense. So I think that that's one thing I would kinda also suggest that when you're when it comes to creating citations, there are many ways to create citations, both brand citations, contextual citations for that brand.
Nick Stamoulis:But Reddit is one source, but our recommendation is generally, you know, make sure it really ties into your audience as well before you engage in just an, you know, a Reddit campaign with this one purpose. So so what do you guys think? Catherine, John Yes. What you think?
Katherine Tsoukalas:So AI treats your website, for example, as one source of many. Mhmm. And Reddit is the same way. It's one source of many. So if your audience is naturally there and if you're already kind of on Reddit anyway, either being mentioned or because you as a brand have spent time on it, it it is worth examining because it has some good content.
Katherine Tsoukalas:It can offer the contrarian opinion. It could be another data point to help AI understand how all of your topics interrelate to one another and how everything fits in your industry. And it can just give more more fuel for how you're returned in the answers. Mhmm. One thing to be sure of though is that Reddit can be unpredictable because it's user created.
Katherine Tsoukalas:So if you're present on Reddit, is this something that should be monitored because you don't want somebody's misinformation or somebody's maybe a disgruntled customer goes on there and complete. You don't want that to skew the answers and have it Right. Churn out wrong information for people that are looking. But it it can be a valuable tool to help people understand who you are and what you're about.
Nick Stamoulis:Yeah. And what you just said about the reputation management aspects of Reddit are extremely valid and extremely important. And I think a lot of brands really underestimate that one piece. Honestly, what you just said is huge. And so this is why clients sometimes will say, oh, you guys charge a lot for your service.
Nick Stamoulis:Well, there's a reason. Look at how many of these things we have to manage. And Reddit reputation on Reddit, I mean, if that's relevant to your business, I mean, it's yeah, there's moderators there, but things get through, you know. So it is important to keep your eyes on it. So John, what do you think?
John:Yeah. I think as of right now, Reddit's a great place to be and it is getting cited by AI a lot. I've been saying this a lot that that I don't think that that's gonna be the case in the future. I it's because Reddit and Vimeo or not Vimeo, sorry. Reddit and LinkedIn have the same exact problem where at this point, it's largely AI generated content, and now AI is iterating on itself, and that's gonna become a problem with the quality of your AI responses.
John:Right? So I I think in the future that it may not be as as important in your AI AI SEO, you know, workflow or whatever. But as of right now, it's a good place for a lot of businesses to be if it makes sense for them to be there.
Nick Stamoulis:Yeah. Our advice literally has been it's I mean, it's our advice has evolved over the decades, over the years. But generally speaking, it's if if it if it's a place where your audience is, where potential customers or, you know, you need to be have your brand visible, that's where you market. So it's and that same thing goes with Reddit. Really does.
Nick Stamoulis:Truly. And LinkedIn for that matter, for sure.
Katherine Tsoukalas:Yeah.
Nick Stamoulis:Moving on, great article from the Content Marketing Institute from their on their website. Why your content budget keeps getting rejected and what pitch works. So it's a really fascinating article that essentially talks about the perspective of basically the c suite. So the CEO of a company, president of a company, managing partners that don't they're not marketers, generally speaking. They understand marketing and its function, but generally might see it as kind of like a line item in the budget.
Nick Stamoulis:And content marketing is even deeper in that. So content marketing usually doesn't get its own separate line in most budgets. It's just bundled in the marketing and oh, it's digital marketing or maybe the SEO person's doing it or, you know, whomever, know, we have a, you know, an in house copyright or whatever and it just gets kind of lumped in. And so what what I think the key points in in this article that really kind of resonated with me was how marketing leaders have a very kind of short attention for content. And often many times, they don't realize the content can be absolutely and there's different types of content, but it can be tied to outcomes and long term goals.
Nick Stamoulis:And sometimes it's viewed like, oh, well, if the content isn't driving immediate visitors or immediate outcomes or immediate conversions or immediate leads right now, then it's not an effective place to invest. And I think that's a very flawed way of thinking. And I believe that's what this article was trying to get to, was to help kind of educate c suite a little bit more to say, hey, you know, don't just give up on your content. And then on the flip side, for as a practitioner, someone that is responsible, maybe in house for trying to get approval to, you know, c suite to say, hey, you know, we we need you to you know, we we think this is a good recommendation. And then, you know, a manager might say, well, our sales are down.
Nick Stamoulis:It's all they care about. Sales are down last quarter. How is this gonna help us do that? Right? And so I think it's a great article in the Content Marketing Institute.
Nick Stamoulis:So I recommend everyone go and read it. But yeah. Catherine, John, what do you guys think on this one?
Katherine Tsoukalas:With marketing, you need c suite buy in in order for you to really get the resources that you need to get your job done. But how is that achieved? So for me, it is really understanding what outcomes the c suite is cares about for the business as a whole, and then making the case for positioning how marketing helps those happen. Now, there's a lot to unpack there because not every marketing department even does this. Some do, everybody should.
Katherine Tsoukalas:So marketing and business outcome needs to be in alignment in order to get the content budget, for example, approved. For a lot of marketers, this is already well understood and it's a thing, and now all they need is to get their budget approved. And how how is this achieved? Well, I have seen many, many times that marketing departments that have had an easier time getting their budget approved have played the long game with their c suite. And even just thrown into casual conversation almost like an elevator pitch of a statement to help position marketing as being helpful for driving the outcomes that the c suite cares about.
Katherine Tsoukalas:So it's this whole it's this whole loop and it's this whole strategy that needs to happen. And I thought this article was great because it highlighted some of the things that we need to care about in order to get the budgets approved, and Yeah. It's a good thing. But I have seen this over and over again that it's an issue.
Nick Stamoulis:Yeah. Remember people, digital marketing is at a high level is short and long term at the same time. Right? You need the you need the short term approach to help you achieve your outcomes and goals in the short now, but you also have to have one eye on the future. Because if you don't have one eye on the future, and this goes way above content marketing.
Nick Stamoulis:Right? If you don't have the one eye on the what's, you know, who's calling, you know, the playbook. Right? Looking long term at the plays, then you know, you're not gonna be able to achieve your outcome in a sustained manner. And so I think, and again, that's something that we see quite a bit too.
Nick Stamoulis:It's people are so focused on the, oh my goodness, I need to advertise. I need now. I need to get results now that they often overlook the long term ramifications of all these channels because, you know, we've seen it over and over and over again. And it's not gonna be the last time where one channel of digital marketing works great until it doesn't. So you have to continue to test, evolve, and continue to build your, you know, your whole ecosystem of of of how you drive your your business.
Nick Stamoulis:So Yeah. John, what do you think on this one? And we'll
John:Yeah.
Nick Stamoulis:We'll move on.
John:Problem is that it's like, it's really hard to tell somebody exact numbers on how, whether it's short term or long term, how this will be good for them. Right? Imagine if I came up to you and I said, I wanna revamp Brick Marketing Live. We need to build a studio. We need to build a lighting rig.
John:We need nice cameras, this and that. We need $25,000 to do it. You're going, woah, hold on a minute.
Nick Stamoulis:How are we gonna
John:make $25,000 back? And it's hard to to over something so long term to be able to say, yes, and here's how that's gonna happen.
Nick Stamoulis:Not from this podcast. Not from this podcast. Actually, were joking beforehand that apparently I'm gonna tell everyone because I think it's I think
John:it's That's fun.
Nick Stamoulis:That we're we're number a 165 on the podcast charts in Sweden. I I just thought it was funny in business podcasts. So anyway, there's that. I'll just leave that and people can do whatever they want with that. Anyway, but no, you're you're totally right, That's that's a great analogy.
Nick Stamoulis:It really is. Yeah. It really is. Moving on. Next, a great article from Marketing Dive.
Nick Stamoulis:Social insights fail to reach decision makers. Here's what the numbers say. So essentially, it says here, report from Sprout Social, so that's a social media management tool, found that while 93% of industry professionals consider social media data collection to be important, just 36% use it to inform decisions outside of marketing. So I thought that was crazy because it's kinda like, okay, especially so if you have an established company, established brand, and let's just say you've been consistent in social media for years, you have all, you know, you're visible and you have a content marketing strategy that's robust, different types of content, you have a social media strategy that's robust, know, your different types of social posts. Things are going great.
Nick Stamoulis:Right? Maybe the engagement isn't what you want it to be, but you're getting in front of your target audiences. So why wouldn't you use that opportunity to ask maybe product development questions. Right? Maybe perception, maybe launch a poll and use do a perception type post of the brand, of what the competitive landscape looks like.
Nick Stamoulis:You know, is there an industry conference that you're thinking about sponsoring or attending? Ask your audience, hey, we're thinking about being come becoming a part of this of this industry conference. Is it worth our time and budget? What do you guys think? Would you guys come would you attend and come and support us?
Nick Stamoulis:So I think this was great and I think it's it, you know, it's it the only difference between using your data, like your social media data for an established company or established brand is it's public. That's really literally it if you're putting public posts and asking people for feedback. So anyway, so I thought this was great. I thought it was great but it was very eye opening too that people, again, tend to think of things in silos and none of this stuff is siloed. Social media included.
Nick Stamoulis:It's not a siloed marketing media. It's integrated or should be integrated to every part of your business beyond marketing. So I thought it was a great article on marketing dives. So I recommend I recommend folks read it. So so I'll start with you John first, since you're the social media guy.
Nick Stamoulis:So what do you what do you think on this?
John:Yeah. So if you are whatever, a a business on social media or something like that, those people who are following you are your customers. Right?
Nick Stamoulis:Right.
John:So look at what they're interacting with. That's likely to be the stuff they're the most interested in.
Nick Stamoulis:Right.
John:One of my favorite things to do is on my YouTube channel is I'll I'll throw a poll up every once in a while asking whatever a question that may not be directly related to videos I'm working on or something, but can help shape the way that I'm doing what I'm doing. And it's a really easy way to get tons and tons of feedback and, you know, those are the people who are interested in what I'm doing. Right? So it's the same thing with social media for businesses. Look at what your audience is interacting with.
John:You can even you can have polls on, you know, Instagram or x or whatever. Use those features because those are great ways to talk directly to your audience.
Nick Stamoulis:Mhmm. Yeah. It really are. Truly. Catherine, what do you think?
Katherine Tsoukalas:So what does it really mean for marketing to be in a silo? We talked about this a little bit in the in a couple of articles ago, but part of it is that marketing should be focused an eye on the future and on the strategy of the company. Yep. And while also focusing on the strategies for the present to get some more immediate results. So what does it look like when they're in a silo?
Katherine Tsoukalas:Well, marketing's just sort of, oh, that's marketing. They're doing the social media. And people around in the company just sort of think marketing is doing its own thing. So it is not a surprise to me that these insights that come from social media and from the social insights that that the rest of the business is missing out on it. Because if people are programmed to think that marketing is in its silo, then they're not gonna think that any data that comes to to any of the marketing activities, social media included, they're not gonna take it seriously.
Katherine Tsoukalas:But they should because if you think about what is it really showing you, social media can give you demographics data.
Nick Stamoulis:Mhmm.
Katherine Tsoukalas:Who really is looking at your content? Is your strategy for selling your product or service, is it hitting the right people? Is what you think your target audience, is that really relevant? This is all insights that you can use some social media of some of the data for, and you're missing an opportunity business wide if you're not looking at it.
Nick Stamoulis:Agreed. 100% correct. Next, article from Search Engine Journal. WordPress seven point o is a winner. Here's what you need to know.
Nick Stamoulis:So I'm not gonna bore folks that don't use WordPress, might use HubSpot, which is a great platform, or other CMSs out there depending on the business. But a lot of companies use WordPress. Like we use WordPress for our site. A lot of our clients most of our clients actually use use WordPress and have for years. So it's a great CMS.
Nick Stamoulis:But I guess the reason why I included it in in this in on our podcast is to remind people, hey, you need to upgrade and maintain your content management system. Right? Especially in open source content management system like WordPress. You know, we we have a client that recently, you know, we were rebuilding their site and you know, was extremely old version. And the client was asking, well, why do I need to upgrade it?
Nick Stamoulis:The same the reason is things break. Right? You're suspecting your your your opening up your website. It's it will become susceptible to getting hacked, to getting malware. And so our best practice, what we do for our clients is version of WordPress always should be at the latest version.
Nick Stamoulis:And then typically the all the WordPress plugins need to be updated as soon as a new version or patch upgrade becomes available. So, you know, you wanna do things the right way. Just don't click update on the back end unless you're really sure. Right? Have a a web developer, a professional.
Nick Stamoulis:That's what we do. We have our web developer on our team. Literally, he does a full backup of the website before we update. Then we upgrade the version of WordPress, evaluate the site to see if things are broken. If things break, which they do sometimes, he fixes them.
Nick Stamoulis:Then he rolls out any plugins that need to be updated. And you know, we'd recommend you do this on a monthly basis. A quarterly basis at the bare minimum, monthly is better. So again, the reason why I want to mention this, there is a new version of WordPress. You should be aware if you do have, if you're using WordPress for your website, then, you know, the version seven point o is out there.
Nick Stamoulis:But if you don't have a technical contingency plan, then I we really recommend that you get one and have this scheduled in. So that's the reason why I included this as a reminder to everyone that it's important to state the latest version of WordPress. So I know, Catherine, you and I have seen countless countless issues over the years of sites literally imploding. Navigations not working. Forms not working.
Nick Stamoulis:E commerce sites not working. Not processing credit cards properly. Hacked websites. Yes. Malware on sites.
Nick Stamoulis:You know, spamming redirects. All sorts of stuff we've seen over the years. And so, Yeah. I mean, anyway, enough Do said the update.
Katherine Tsoukalas:That's it. If it's painful. I remember when WordPress released something and they introduced the block editor and I hated it. Do the update, suck it up. I I can't say that strong enough.
Nick Stamoulis:I Yeah. Do not cut to Yeah.
Katherine Tsoukalas:Just do it.
Nick Stamoulis:Yep. I mean, there's nothing else we can really say here. So Yeah. Anyway, moving on. A great article from marketing tech, LinkedIn plans paid for events to court the creator economy.
Nick Stamoulis:So I thought this was really fascinating because basically, LinkedIn is planning to create gated events on their website the second half of twenty twenty six with up to 50 creators with paid events following that later this year and into next year. So I thought this was interesting. To me, it also seemed like, you know you know, we get asked to and we've managed LinkedIn ad campaigns before. We do a lot of management on LinkedIn. So LinkedIn company pages, LinkedIn groups, newsletters, events on LinkedIn, you know you know, c suite, you know, sales teams, marketing teams, in addition to the company pages, you know, looking at, you know, the upgraded accounts, all those different stuff.
Nick Stamoulis:We've managed ad campaigns many many times. This to me seems like a play to generate revenue. Unfortunately, nothing more. I love LinkedIn. I truly do.
Nick Stamoulis:But it's it's unfortunately becoming accessible. Unfortunately. Like a lot of the other social platforms are out there is, you know, you see just, you know, a lot of do it yourself hack type posts. Then you see the, you know, the oh, let me pat myself on the back type posts. And then you see the complaining posts, I've been I've been, you know, been unemployed for x period of time, which is terrible.
Nick Stamoulis:But still, like, it's not a a generally fun place, I don't think, like it used to be. And, you know, and again I again, this is coming from someone who uses LinkedIn every day. I I do love using LinkedIn, but I think that, you know, these plans to create, you know, paid for events to have creators. I mean, they're just, you know, stick to free events. Right?
Nick Stamoulis:Keep social media free. Have businesses to have all the upgrades and advertising, but there's you don't need to create another channel. I I don't know. That's just my opinion. Another channel revenue.
Nick Stamoulis:So interesting to see if this actually has staying power and sticks beyond this year or if it's if they're just testing it. But I thought it was I thought it was interesting to see this. So
Katherine Tsoukalas:There's something interesting here that I picked up on. It is the use of the Chanel brand in this in reading the article, there's no clue that they're going to be targeting luxury brands. But seeing this image, it makes me wonder if that's their play. Like, if they're gonna try to create a more, like, luxury experience rather than it being the Instagram businesses that launch and it's like a a ponytail hair extension thing. Or Mhmm.
Katherine Tsoukalas:It it seems like LinkedIn is perhaps gonna make a push for the creator economy, but the creator economy that does luxury brands. Because Chanel, that's a considerable luxury brand that, it would be interesting to see how it plays out. There's no evidence that they're actually specifically going to target luxury brands in the content body of this article. Mhmm. But Yep.
Katherine Tsoukalas:I'm just wondering with the use of the Chanel image, if that's kind of where their head is at, where they're going with it.
Nick Stamoulis:Interesting. John, what do you think on this?
John:Yeah. I do wonder what, like, brands will really end up being involved in something like this. Because LinkedIn is in like, it's an interesting platform in that it's very much a type of person who's on LinkedIn and, you know, and posting on it frequently. And I don't know what type of, like, luxury brands, like you said, Catherine, would really be interested in in doing anything with those those types of people because it doesn't really it has nothing to do with business because LinkedIn is very business. So, yeah.
John:I'm I'm just curious to see what this will end up being like.
Nick Stamoulis:Yeah. Yeah. Who knows? This could be one of those stories that come out and then just gets buried and we never hear anything from again.
John:Quite frankly.
Katherine Tsoukalas:And they never did anything with it? They never did it?
Nick Stamoulis:Yep. Maybe. Never knows right. Next, really great article from Search Engine Land. Why AI adoption may look bigger than it really is.
Nick Stamoulis:So this article is fascinating. So we often utilize the data provider Spark Toro, who's quoted in it. Basically, it's a great source of industry kind of adoption for search and for, you know, and and for just web trends at a higher level and AI trends as well. So the article essentially says and the data says, at its peak, about 37% of US desktop users visited OpenAI or ChatGPT in September 2025. According to the data Rand Fishkin cited, who's with SparkToro, that figure fell to 34% by March.
Nick Stamoulis:Fishkin said the same general pattern appeared in The EU and UK, though desktop usage was roughly 10% higher than in The US. Claude gained with professionals, so that was another insight. And so and the and then so and there's a theory that AI usage is huge with businesses and not with consumers. So I think this is really interesting. And for someone myself that, you know, and many of you listening have, you know, I witnessed the rise, literally the rise of the Internet.
Nick Stamoulis:You know, I I've I've started my career in 1998. So the internet was new. Ecommerce wasn't really a thing. Right? There was no social media.
Nick Stamoulis:Bandwidth speeds were slow. There was no videos online. There was nothing like that. And so the adoption, usually what happens is it goes from like the novelty. When something launches, it goes from novelty.
Nick Stamoulis:Then it goes to mass adoption, but it has to evolve. Like, right? So if we think about it at a higher level historically, how the web has really progressed of going from e commerce to then so being a place of social, social media and then video. Right? And not and then apps that whole with smartphones.
Nick Stamoulis:Right? Apps was the big craze. Every brand needed an app, all that stuff. Right? And then so so now you're at a point where AI is in a very similar pattern where it's out of beta, it's being utilized, people are recognizing some of its uses.
Nick Stamoulis:But also I think that the media is not helping things, quite frankly, by pounding in everyone's brain. You know, I heard I heard recently too that that that that just you have half of everyone that's scared that, hey, AI is gonna, you know, have a terminator situation and AI is gonna literally take over the world and erase humans. Right? And then you have the other half of people that embrace it and love it. We're in that camp.
Nick Stamoulis:We embrace it and love it because we see it's it's it's endless capabilities to help scale from a business perspective and personal too, by the way. So I just think it's interesting. I think this just could be the natural progression of where things are at, personally. I think it's it's moving out of its novelty phase right now. I think it's already moved out.
Nick Stamoulis:But it's out of the novelty phase and more entrenched in, okay, there are different platforms for different purposes. Right? Like the article alludes to or what it actually says about Claude. Right? You know, like, you know, even for our own company.
Nick Stamoulis:We use every platform, but we use it for certain things. We don't use one platform for everything because we've learned that, you know, as marketers, you know, some of these platforms have better functionality and uses than others. And so I just thought I just thought this was interesting. So, you know, I again, it's this is kinda one of those articles where it's like, okay, I think it could be right. The AI adoption may actually be look bigger than it actually is.
Nick Stamoulis:Right? Another little nugget, and I know I mentioned this to the team earlier today that we, you know, we were actively testing at Brick Marketing, ChatGPT's ads. So I'm seeing search data and, you know, there's not much data really, but I'm seeing impression level data and comparing that to traditional search for the audience. So that gives another picture of like, okay, what's it doing? Right?
Nick Stamoulis:So anyway, this is a very loaded and interesting article. So Catherine, John, what do you guys think on this?
Katherine Tsoukalas:The thing about a term like adoption is that when it comes to AI, which is so versatile, we have to define what that means. Is it somebody using it to help write an email? Is it somebody using it to help make a purchasing decision? So usage is so varied that would it it's makes it somewhat tricky for even, like, a brand to discover how to utilize this and to how to get their brand in the conversation when people are adopting it. So it might look bigger because of the headlines.
Katherine Tsoukalas:Right? The adoption. Might look bigger because of the headlines. Oh, the AI, and it might take away jobs. Now that type of conversation is dying down because AI is just a machine and you need a human to police what it's saying and doing.
Katherine Tsoukalas:But at the same time, there is adoption happening that is affecting the sales cycle for companies. So
Nick Stamoulis:You but you you know what, Catherine? I I do. And I think you're right on many levels, but especially on, you know, on the consumer side of things, you know, thinking back to the early days of the web, that literally followed this very similar progression where the web was used for research. Like businesses to sit, you know, like data decisions were done, you know, for early days of search, early days of the web. Ecommerce really wasn't prevalent yet.
Nick Stamoulis:People weren't comfortable with buying. Right? There was no Apple Pay. There was no easy checkout. There was no right?
Nick Stamoulis:But I so I think that personally, I think that in the coming years, sooner than we think, you know, when we have when agents are purchasing in the agentic web that everyone talks about is fully flushed out and consumers are actually comfortable letting Amazon's AI tool purchase for them, letting Google Gemini purchase for them, letting ChatGPT per actually make purchases for them on their behalf, then the b to c, the consumer based adoption will skyrocket, I think.
Katherine Tsoukalas:Yes.
Nick Stamoulis:So I don't know. John, what are your thoughts on this? Can we move on?
John:Yeah. I think the reason that you see lower percentages of people using AI is because, like you said, a lot of the novelty has worn off. And Yep. A lot of people are sort of sick of AI being pushed into their faces. Right?
John:It's not like Yep. The internet kept its you know, it wasn't highly monetized when it first started. So people were interested and they were interested in using it because it was something of their own. They chose to do so. Right.
John:But AI is being pushed into, you know, regular people's lives so frequently that I think a lot of people are kind of they're kind of over it. Right? They're being forced to use AI in some places and they're seeing how well it's not really 100% ready for a lot of the use cases that it's being forced into. So a lot of people's perception of AI is getting worse and worse over time. I use AI, you know.
John:I see a lot of ways that it's very helpful, especially with work. And there are some things that I use it for in my personal life, but I'm not going to it constantly in my personal life to, you know, replace, you know, the way I search online and things like that because it it's very helpful, but there's just it's just not fully ready for some of those tasks yet.
Nick Stamoulis:Yep. Yep. Right. Well said. Well said.
Nick Stamoulis:Moving on. Next article, why better data interpretation improves digital marketing. So this is an article that we wrote on the Brick Marketing company blog. And so essentially what we're saying here is prioritizing the right data metrics creates long term better overall digital strategies. And and so and this is something that we see and we have not just now, but this is just traditionally.
Nick Stamoulis:We've seen teams whether they're, you know, smaller business or a larger business that has an in house marketing team that sometimes they get bogged down with with certain types of data that just really aren't really what they should be looking at. Right? Or or like little nuggets of information that they perceive as important, but aren't actually important for making intelligent decisions that's, you know, that will help guide the overall strategic directions of, you know, a digital marketing strategy. So that's what we were trying to get you here. It's a really nice read.
Nick Stamoulis:I I recommend people check it out in the Brick Marketing blog on our website. But Catherine, John, what do you guys think on this?
Katherine Tsoukalas:When we're online, we generate data.
Nick Stamoulis:Mhmm.
Katherine Tsoukalas:And what we do with that data is up to us. Right? Most of the time a lot of the times, most of the data that we have just kinda sits around and we don't look at it. Part of it is because we don't know the right metrics to collect. So we're like, okay, that's information.
Katherine Tsoukalas:Okay. And you just kinda look at it and say, oh, well, who cares type of thing. But if if your data collection is intentional, meaning it aligns with your business outcomes, it aligns with what you're trying to actually do with your marketing, then you should be using it to your advantage. But everything has to be aligned. Otherwise, you're just collecting numbers, and the numbers can look like junk.
Katherine Tsoukalas:So prioritize the right metrics, look at them, actually look at them, and create your strategies around what you're seeing. Because here's the thing, we can have a gut instinct for something. Oh, I feel this in my gut.
Nick Stamoulis:Mhmm.
Katherine Tsoukalas:But how many times has that actually worked out? Oh, I think such and such is gonna be popular. I think this is gonna be great. And it's not great. You just made a business decision based on your intuition without looking at any numbers whatsoever.
John:So you're wasting your money.
Nick Stamoulis:Totally. The moral of the story is use the data and then use your instinct and experience based on that data to make Or the
Katherine Tsoukalas:vice versa. Or vice versa. Even I have a gut instinct. Does the data support my instinct?
Nick Stamoulis:Right. Right. Yep.
Katherine Tsoukalas:Yep. Either way, you need you do need both. You you shouldn't ignore your your gut and you shouldn't ignore your data.
Nick Stamoulis:Mhmm. Agreed. John, your thoughts?
John:A big problem is that there's just so much data. Right? So a lot of people don't know what to look at. I think once you narrow that down, you should keep track of what you find is important for your business and keep a spreadsheet, maybe month to month data, maybe maybe even weekly. And see how like, if there are any trends, any changes, and really hone in on those things to interpret your data better because in the end, your digital marketing will be better because you'll have real insights.
Nick Stamoulis:Absolutely. Well said. Well said. Next article is another great one from the Content Marketing Institute. Your best content campaign got the axe.
Nick Stamoulis:How to save the work that matters. So I thought this was fascinating because essentially what it's trying to do here is give actual advice for in house teams or agency teams or whomever that essentially creates content, maybe longer form content that took a lot of effort and work. So a scenario is you create a white paper and the white paper is a nice shiny new object of research and data. You spend a lot of resources developing it, developing the graphics, laying it out, having it look great, determining if it's going be gated or ungated, look at what KPIs you need, all of this stuff. Right?
Nick Stamoulis:And then all of a sudden, it's working gangbusters, accomplishing your goals, doing well, and then it doesn't. Then it gets outdated. Right? And then it just gets kind of thrown on the shelf somewhere, and then you move on to the next shiny new object. So this article is essentially trying to give actual advice, which I thought was great, about how to protect your assets.
Nick Stamoulis:Your content assets and how to use them in the future. And then communicate that to lead, to management, you know, to an you know, this the c suite to say, hey, we invested this amount of time. Maybe let's not shelve it completely. Maybe let's reuse parts of it elsewhere here or another place here. So I thought this was great.
Nick Stamoulis:You know, we often help our clients with content recycling and reusing older content. Rewrite it. Change the title. Change URL structure. You know, add some micro content to it.
Nick Stamoulis:You know, swap out the photo if the photo looks dated. Right? There's things you can do to revitalize a piece of content that maybe is stale and ineffective, especially if you've invested so much in your content over the years and most a lot of companies do. It doesn't make sense to just throw it away and discard it. So I thought this was a great piece of the Content Marketing Institute.
Nick Stamoulis:Really recommend folks checking it out. So Catherine, John, what do you think on that?
Katherine Tsoukalas:In a way, this article to me also validates why it is important to have transparency with your leadership Yep. About what is going on with your content and stuff. Because when they're making budgeting decisions, trying to decide what to axe and what not to axe, if marketing had been in a silo and they don't know what's going on, they're going to just be like, oh, we don't need the blog. And they're just going to not budget for it anymore out of the blue. But if they are kept in the loop about what marketing does and why it's important, then your content is not going to get the axe because they're gonna under understand why it's needed.
Katherine Tsoukalas:So when you're putting together a campaign for content or for anything else in digital marketing, keeping people in the loop about why it's important will prevent your budget from getting canceled.
Nick Stamoulis:Absolutely. Absolutely. Well said. John, what do you think?
John:Yeah. One one of I really agree with sort of recycling content in different ways because, you know, you you've spent the time, like maybe Catherine said, to write a ton of blogs and now that's getting axed. Maybe that won't be accessible to people anymore. As long as you still have it, you can use those blogs to maybe make social media posts, maybe you can make videos, explainers, stuff like that that might be that shiny, you know, new object to whoever is, you know, making those decisions in the end. So, yeah.
John:Keep keeping that whatever content you're making and then finding ways to recycle them a whole bunch is such a good way to make sure that all of that work doesn't go to waste.
Nick Stamoulis:Absolutely. Moving on. Great article from DigiDay. Trust becomes the product. Marketers grapple with Google's new suite of AI powered ad agents.
Nick Stamoulis:So essentially, this is a great article. Essentially talking about, you know, performance max, deja vu basically. Essentially, Google's new for Google AdWords, for Google Ads, their new AI type program that creates a full campaign using AI. And so we've tested it and we've tested a lot of the performance max was, you know, in the past. And I'll tell you for certain types of campaigns, works great.
Nick Stamoulis:And and honestly, I think Google wants you know, we all have to understand, you know. It says like, you know, this article talks about that trust becomes a product. It's true. Google Ads wants brands and companies to trust that their AI agents, AI powered agents are gonna launch ad Google ad campaigns that will actually achieve results. And we've tested it and some of it works great, but some of it doesn't.
Nick Stamoulis:And I think it really depends on the type of business, the type of audiences and what type of budget you're working with quite frankly. I mean, you know, I don't like throwing the budget in there, but it's true. I mean, if you have, you know, a larger ad budget and then sure, maybe you say, okay, let's take 5% or 10% of our overall budget and experiment with this. Have our rest of our 90% of our budget segmented out and we know that it's tight and it's gonna drive the outcomes that we're looking for and the goals and, you know, results we need. So I just thought this was interesting.
Nick Stamoulis:But I, you know, I would caution small businesses. Right? There's no real shortcuts to doing this. We've worked with, you know, with with businesses that come to us to manage their PPC and, you know, the Google Ad campaigns and either on autopilot. And they're literally using, you know, these AI performance max type campaigns and the results are atrocious.
Nick Stamoulis:Conversion rates are low. It's just spammy traffic. Remember, you know, and and they say, oh, look. Look how many eyeballs I'm getting. It's not about how many eyeballs you're getting.
Nick Stamoulis:It's what type of results you're getting from your advertising and what type of return on that ad result that you're really seeing for your business. So, yeah. Catherine, John, what do you guys think on this one really quick?
Katherine Tsoukalas:I think grain of salt. Right? Like you
Nick Stamoulis:Yep.
Katherine Tsoukalas:Mentioned, a campaign is only as good as how it's composed. And if your ultimate goal is for high intent traffic, you don't know honestly, you don't know if the performance max or any of the AI driven stuff is going to deliver that. It's gonna deliver what it thinks it knows you want. Right now, I feel like we have a ways to go until these AI driven tools are sophisticated enough to help businesses get the outcomes they really want from the campaigns.
Nick Stamoulis:Yep. Agreed. Agreed. Alright. Let's move on.
Nick Stamoulis:A few more here for today. Next is an article from Smart Brief, which essentially is quoting an article a report on future b to b's special report. Name of the article is how b to b marketers can succeed in the age of AEO, answer engine optimization. And so the the the takeaway that I looked at, I actually looked at the report and went through it a little bit, I thought it was great. It says here that they dive into AEO or answer engine optimization is nothing more than an evolution of SEO.
Nick Stamoulis:The same SEO principles plus some key changes could position you for success, the article says. It said future b to b provides details on foundational AEO best practices, how to structure your content, importance of authoritative content, how to build your brand authority, ways to keep content fresh, and a AEO or answer engine optimization metrics to add to your SEO dashboard. I think this is great. Mhmm. And this actually ties directly into Google recently changing the, I guess, the philosophy that AI SEO or AI search, also known as generative engine optimization is one part of it and answer engine optimization is the other part of it, is nothing more than SEO.
Nick Stamoulis:And so we've been saying that for years since AI is launched and AI was in play, we've been saying it and now we're just seeing it. Google made the official statement recently. We're starting to see other marketers chime in on this. And so it it really is. I mean, and so the reality is, you know, if you're a brand owner and you know, you don't have this in house capability, find a partner to help you with this.
Nick Stamoulis:Find someone that has this experience to do it because it is it's yes, it's just a quote unquote SEO, but it's a lot more complex than people think. Cause you have to balance traditional search with generative engine optimization with answer engine optimization, a content marketing strategy, citation building strategy, everything technical that's involved with all of it. So, you know, not brain surgery, but also not that easy. So so, Catherine, John, really quick. Do wanna just chime in really quick here?
Nick Stamoulis:I have a few more and then we'll call it for today.
Katherine Tsoukalas:So I would widen that actually. Yeah. The best practices for AI are basically SEO strategies tweaked, but some of the things like, oh, build your brand authority. That is a marketing principle, period.
Nick Stamoulis:Right.
Katherine Tsoukalas:Right. And if you feel like you're playing catch up right now with the AI era, it probably means that you have kind of ignored your marketing for a while. Is something to think about.
Nick Stamoulis:Yep. Agreed. Agreed. Alright. Few more.
Nick Stamoulis:So this next one is from search engine land called the search everywhere optimization pyramid. How to build visibility before search. I thought this was brilliant and we're actually going to be creating some really nice reference materials in the future about searching everywhere. And really what this article tends to say is, people think of SEO as search engine optimization. But it's really you're searching everywhere.
Nick Stamoulis:That means you're searching on YouTube. And YouTube by the way folks is one of the top search engines by itself. Right? So, like, if if, you know, take Google out of the mix, take Bing out of the mix, it's probably number two search engine right next to Google. YouTube.
Nick Stamoulis:Right? So people search on YouTube. People search on Amazon. People think about it. Right?
Nick Stamoulis:People search on Reddit. They're searching in social media. Right? So when we address optimization for our clients in building a brand, we look at that content and how that fits into every channel and where your audiences are and how are they searching. You know, how they what branded and non branded ways they're searching for your products or services.
Nick Stamoulis:So I thought this was a great piece from search engine land. I recommend everyone check it out. But John, let me start with you on this one, because you and I were actually talking about this earlier. But I think Catherine will get your your thoughts on it. But yeah, tell me really quick.
John:Yeah. The the search everywhere way of putting it is is such a good way for people to understand it better. Because, you know, AEO, AI SEO, it it really does make it sound like it is just search engine and stuff. But in reality, we talk about it all the time. We talk about Reddit.
John:We talk about your own websites. We talk about social media and how it all plays a huge role in the way that your business comes up in AI. So I think it's a really clear way for people who might not fully understand it yet to understand it better.
Nick Stamoulis:Yes. Absolutely. Catherine, your thoughts?
Katherine Tsoukalas:This is aligned with what I've been saying, what we've all been saying that you have to be visible on the public Internet in order to have your brand found in AI. And this is aligned with that. You can't think of search as its own thing. You have to think of search as an entity that includes all of your marketing. And Yep.
Katherine Tsoukalas:This article has a really nice way of explaining the concept.
Nick Stamoulis:Absolutely does. Yeah. So last for today, an article from the Brick Marketing blog. Digital marketing works best when strategy comes first. And I know the title seems like, oh, duh.
Nick Stamoulis:Kinda basic, but it's true. You know how many times we've yeah. Seen You know, here's the thing. Digital marketing and that means any channel of marketing. So SEO, AI SEO, content marketing, social media, paid advertising.
Nick Stamoulis:It doesn't matter the channel of digital marketing or offline marketing for that matter. If you're just shooting in the dark, what you're doing is you're doing tactics. Right? Digital marketing are they're not tactics. They're strategies that should be working in a coordinated, organized fashion together.
Nick Stamoulis:And that's that's an area that we see of so many so many clients over the years in recent, where they come and say, oh, they they they put their whole, you know, effort on one quote unquote tactic or oh, a buddy of mine told me that I should do x or I saw this podcast and I wanna do y. What do you think? My thought is, well, why don't we look at it now? You know, we had a client that we're managing and the results are great for this client comes to mind. And the client is like looking for that next shiny new object.
Nick Stamoulis:And they always do. What else can I be doing? And instead of doing the shiny new art object and being a tactic approach, make it strategic. So that's what we're trying to convey here in this article is it works best when strategy comes first. So Yeah.
Nick Stamoulis:Catherine, John, anything to add quick on this?
Katherine Tsoukalas:It's our core philosophy, really. We're trying to save on the clients from themselves, to be honest, because a lot of the times when somebody introduces a shiny new object, it's expensive and won't bring in the high intent traffic that makes the phone ring, and we know the difference. So Right. Create a great strategy that aligns with your outcomes, and that's what you should be focusing on. I don't care if somebody said that this podcast is a cool idea.
Katherine Tsoukalas:Cool does not necessarily mean you're you're gonna get the phone to ring and get the business you
Nick Stamoulis:need. So true. We're going in our twenty second year in business. Right? We've been in business for twenty one, going on to '22.
Nick Stamoulis:And we launched a podcast this year. This podcast you're listening Right? Right? So we could have done it ten years ago, but we didn't. Right?
Nick Stamoulis:So there's reasons for it. We have
Katherine Tsoukalas:other stuff that we were
Nick Stamoulis:Other right. Other priorities. Correct. Correct. Correct.
Nick Stamoulis:So, John, really quick on this and and then we'll call it for today.
John:I don't have too much to add. It's just that every decision you make needs to have some strategy behind it because you can make Right. Tons and tons of decisions that don't really make sense and you might end up spending money in places that it it just becomes a waste. So, you know Yeah. Like we were talking about earlier, use your data.
John:Right?
Nick Stamoulis:Yep.
John:Yep. Find what works and, you know, do it, iterate on it, and, know, that's all you need to do.
Nick Stamoulis:Exactly. Exactly. Well said. Well said. Alright.
Nick Stamoulis:So that will conclude conclude today's podcast. Our next Brick Marketing Live event will be next Tuesday, June 2 at 04:30 eastern. And remember, you can stream this podcast live on the Brick Marketing website, brickmarketing.com/live on the official Brick Marketing company LinkedIn page, Facebook page, and YouTube channel. And also, we will be this will be added on every podcast platform, every major place where you can listen to a podcast, search for Brick Marketing or Brick Marketing Live. Doctor.
Nick Stamoulis:JACKSON:
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